Does it remove the humanity of the person who can no longer stay/sit because being in presence of that suffering is creating so much suffering for themselves that they see no other option but not be there?
In my opinion, not at all. This is talking about an ideal way of being but not always a practical one for any number of important reasons. We are obligated to take care of ourselves first, and if doing that is fundamentally at odds with helping someone, then the right thing to do is to not sit with that person (as painful as that may be).
This is really good: "In the same way that it was deduced that the Higgs Boson and the planet Neptune “must be there” even though we lacked the tools to observe them directly, so too must there be a goodness at the bottom of it all."
I think the challenge of this kind of question comes from the fact that in the modern world - whether we're a fundamentalist or fundamaterialist - we have such a strong bias toward believing that we can 'think" our way through anything (a few yeas of working as a psychologist with folks from the poorest areas of rural South Carolina quickly eliminates the belief in that idea)
I don't know that, in 50 years living in and around NY City, i ever met anyone who admitted being a religious fundamentalist. Within a week of moving to Greenville, SC, I found it rare to meet someone who was not proud of being a religious fundamentalist. This actually came in handy!
I did about 2000 psychology evaluations for people in South Carolina applying for social security disability. In one case, a woman with a true horrifying abuse background (to avoid triggering the reader, I won't say a thing about any of it - it really was that horrifying).
At one point, as she and I were both crying, I said to her (knowing without even asking what her religious orientation was), "Where is Jesus, now?"
She mumbled something, through her tears, about him sitting up in heaven at the right hand of the father. I responded, "no, i mean where do you experience him?"
She looked confused, and I asked her to enter deep into her heart. Interestingly, though this might be an instruction given to someone who is at least an intermediate level contemplative, she appeared to know exactly what I meant. the tears stopped, her face at first just stopped, then broadened to a smile.
Really, her first words were, "Why hasn't anyone ever told me about this? Why didnt' my pastor tell us this when I was growing up?"
To me, the question about what if the universe is bad takes a far back seat to "why isn't every human being told about the Divinity deep within their hearts?" How can we love God with all our mind, heart, body and soul if we don't know that She is right here, within us? How can we love our neighbor as ("as," not "like" - "AS") our Self if we don't know that She resides in them - every one of them - as much as She does in every leaf, flower, car, AI (yep - whether consciously or not) and even in Trump, Biden, Putin, Netanyahu, and all the rest!
"Why isn't every human being told about the Divinity deep within their hearts?" Yes, this is also a great question, though unlike your client, I think very many people can't feel it so readily when they're in the throes of suffering.
True about "Divinity" per se - but I would also suggest, based on over 4000 people I've worked with one to one, that if one doesn't use traditionally "religious" or "spiritual" terms, it's almost always possible to find something that symbolizes for that person something that provides a visceral, embodied sense of Divinity.
It may be a few lines of John Coltrane for some; for others it may be the view for hundreds of miles at an overlook on the Blue Ridge Parkway; for others it may actually be a line from one of the Psalms or other parts of scripture, and for still others it may be "the tree at the end of the earth" (a phrase from a patient who was hospitalized after talking of suicide, describing an oak tree next to a bench in the hospital courtyard, which gave her great solace during her hospital stay)
Does it remove the humanity of the person who can no longer stay/sit because being in presence of that suffering is creating so much suffering for themselves that they see no other option but not be there?
In my opinion, not at all. This is talking about an ideal way of being but not always a practical one for any number of important reasons. We are obligated to take care of ourselves first, and if doing that is fundamentally at odds with helping someone, then the right thing to do is to not sit with that person (as painful as that may be).
This is really good: "In the same way that it was deduced that the Higgs Boson and the planet Neptune “must be there” even though we lacked the tools to observe them directly, so too must there be a goodness at the bottom of it all."
TY 🙏
I think the challenge of this kind of question comes from the fact that in the modern world - whether we're a fundamentalist or fundamaterialist - we have such a strong bias toward believing that we can 'think" our way through anything (a few yeas of working as a psychologist with folks from the poorest areas of rural South Carolina quickly eliminates the belief in that idea)
I don't know that, in 50 years living in and around NY City, i ever met anyone who admitted being a religious fundamentalist. Within a week of moving to Greenville, SC, I found it rare to meet someone who was not proud of being a religious fundamentalist. This actually came in handy!
I did about 2000 psychology evaluations for people in South Carolina applying for social security disability. In one case, a woman with a true horrifying abuse background (to avoid triggering the reader, I won't say a thing about any of it - it really was that horrifying).
At one point, as she and I were both crying, I said to her (knowing without even asking what her religious orientation was), "Where is Jesus, now?"
She mumbled something, through her tears, about him sitting up in heaven at the right hand of the father. I responded, "no, i mean where do you experience him?"
She looked confused, and I asked her to enter deep into her heart. Interestingly, though this might be an instruction given to someone who is at least an intermediate level contemplative, she appeared to know exactly what I meant. the tears stopped, her face at first just stopped, then broadened to a smile.
Really, her first words were, "Why hasn't anyone ever told me about this? Why didnt' my pastor tell us this when I was growing up?"
To me, the question about what if the universe is bad takes a far back seat to "why isn't every human being told about the Divinity deep within their hearts?" How can we love God with all our mind, heart, body and soul if we don't know that She is right here, within us? How can we love our neighbor as ("as," not "like" - "AS") our Self if we don't know that She resides in them - every one of them - as much as She does in every leaf, flower, car, AI (yep - whether consciously or not) and even in Trump, Biden, Putin, Netanyahu, and all the rest!
"Why isn't every human being told about the Divinity deep within their hearts?" Yes, this is also a great question, though unlike your client, I think very many people can't feel it so readily when they're in the throes of suffering.
True about "Divinity" per se - but I would also suggest, based on over 4000 people I've worked with one to one, that if one doesn't use traditionally "religious" or "spiritual" terms, it's almost always possible to find something that symbolizes for that person something that provides a visceral, embodied sense of Divinity.
It may be a few lines of John Coltrane for some; for others it may be the view for hundreds of miles at an overlook on the Blue Ridge Parkway; for others it may actually be a line from one of the Psalms or other parts of scripture, and for still others it may be "the tree at the end of the earth" (a phrase from a patient who was hospitalized after talking of suicide, describing an oak tree next to a bench in the hospital courtyard, which gave her great solace during her hospital stay)